The Kings Creek Podcast
Fueled by our love for God’s creation, we spark fresh and funny conversations that unite listeners through shared passions like the outdoors, golf, and music. Although uncharted waters can be frightening, they also tend to yield the greatest rewards. So, grab your life jacket and hop in the creek... it's a journey worth taking.
The Kings Creek Podcast
Gratitude Redefined | Dr. David McKinley | Ep. 001
Ever wondered how a humble attitude of gratitude can change your life? How it can smoothen the rough edges of anxiety and worry, or help build stronger, more meaningful relationships? Join us as we sit down with Dr David McKinley, pastor-teacher of Warren Baptist Church, who shares his journey of faith, contentment, and gratitude.
In this episode, Dr McKinley takes us back to his transformative teenage years where he committed his life towards gospel ministry, and how answered his calling to a lifetime of ministry. We delve deep into the Biblical essence of gratitude and explore how it intertwines with faith, breeding a calming sense of contentment. We also ponder over the profound impact expressing gratitude can have on our mental health, helping us steer clear of worry and anxiety.
Journeying further, we discuss how gratitude can foster meaningful relationships and even be a bridge between diverse individuals. Rounding off this episode, we share stories of our uplifting mission trip to Maine assisting in church planting, and even our joint venture with Midnight Coal Coffee Company. Lastly, we extend a warm invitation for you to join us for a service at Warren Baptist Church. So, don’t miss out on this timely discussion about gratitude, humility, and taking action. Your journey towards a more grateful life starts here!
If you're ready to jump in the creek with us, head over to Kings Creek Apparel HERE!
Welcome to episode one of the Kings Creek podcast. To kick off this show, we decided to start with a series based on a virtue and life perspective that Jesse and I feel strongly towards Gratitude, what it means to be grateful, what it means to live life with an attitude of gratitude. Our goal for this series is to redefine gratitude to be a verb rather than a noun, to disprove the notion that money equals success and to give you a few tools to empower you to live your life with an attitude of gratitude.
Speaker 2:So our first guest has been in ministry for over 40 years. We decided to move forward with the Kings Creek podcast. He was always on our radar to be our first guest. It's really no secret what this man means to us and our community. So, without further ado, let's chat with Dr David McKinley, my pastor teacher, mike's pastor teacher and Warren Baptist Church. Augusta Church.
Speaker 3:Pastor Dr David McKinley. Do you say doctor first or pastor, like I never know what's correct.
Speaker 4:And then other people put titles on me. So I told the church when I came to Warren just let me be pastor, because that's our relationship. But in on the personal level, I'm just David. Professionally, yes, I have an earned degree and all that stuff. I'm glad for that. But I always want to just be in that role and that relationship of pastor and shepherd with our people.
Speaker 3:I love it. I love the humility that you bring into the role. I'm looking on the website. It's pastor teacher.
Speaker 4:It's just you know those are the two things I do. I pastor and I'm the teacher. So you know, I try to lead, feed, protect, guide the church and to encourage them. You know, through the word of God and the testimony of Christ, I love it so well.
Speaker 3:obviously this series is on gratitude and Jesse and I are grateful enough that you've come back a second time. We had a technical difficulty, which I will take full responsibility for. I know Jesse is shaking his head like he had something to do with it, but I'm the guy behind the board.
Speaker 4:Hey, don't beat yourself up, Just be grateful that we can do it again. It's like my wife said the other day when you guys let me know that we had a flub and a flop and we're going to have to do it again, she said hey, you ought to be. You need to know that it's the live stuff that's hard. You can't correct that.
Speaker 4:And at least in a podcast, we can get back together and, hey, thank God for second chances. Just one of the things we need to be most grateful for in life is that everything in life is not a one and done. Some things are, but you know, we do get second chances and I'm really thankful for that in my own life and I'm just glad we can sit back down together and hang out here together today and spend some time talking about gratitude Amen.
Speaker 3:I love it. Well, why don't you? I know we've we've heard it, but why don't you introduce yourself to the audience and kind of share who is David McKinley?
Speaker 4:So David McKinley was born in Memphis, tennessee. I have not lived there though. Now though that was my home. I have not lived there since 1983, but of course I was there in the Elvis years. Thank you very much, and that was kind of fun to be there and to be a part of Memphis. I've lived in South Florida, I've lived in Texas Dallas, texas and then now here in Augusta, georgia, been pastor of Warren Baptist Church for the last 15 years a tremendous blessing in my life been married for 44 years. I have two children, eight grandchildren, a wonderful, wonderful band of brothers and friends literally around the country, and just feel so very privileged to have spent my life living and serving in gospel ministry.
Speaker 3:Jesse and I were talking before this. We want to get to know the young David. What was 16 year old David McKinley like?
Speaker 4:Well, I'm old enough now, I don't remember.
Speaker 4:It's a good answer, yeah 16 year old David McKinley had just come to terms with the fact that he believed that following Christ was the most important thing in life for him and for his future.
Speaker 4:I had had a series of years in my early teenage wandering, testing, frankly, kind of being a chameleon. I knew how to be a good boy, but I also wanted to be a bad boy in my heart and there was a lot of wandering in my life and I did some things I'm really glad to own up to but really would not prefer to talk about. But I ultimately came to a place of crisis in my life of one night in my bedroom just getting on my knees and saying, god, if you're real, I really want to know that you're real. I want to know if all this stuff I've spent my life hearing about Christianity, the Bible, all that is real, and I really had an encounter with God that changed my life. And then, at 16, I made a commitment, very fearfully, but very, very much from a spirit of surrender, to commit my life to do exactly what I'm doing today. And so, at 16, I made a commitment to surrender my life to Christ and to be a preacher of the gospel. And here I am at 65 doing that.
Speaker 3:Yes 65.
Speaker 4:And you know, yeah, that's where I am today.
Speaker 3:It's incredible when you first were saved did you feel like you were quote unquote on fire for God, like I remember?
Speaker 3:so I was saved at about 17 years old, kind of similarly out of a crisis and I remember, like the next six months I felt untouchable, like just so on fire, no one could touch me. And then I'll admit like, as the years went on, I joined the military and I kind of got not for I still had the belief, but further away from God's word. And it wasn't actually until Jesse came over for the podcast and invited me to warn. That I kind of read, reignited that faith again, and but you've been pastoring for 40 years now. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:So 15 years, 15 years at Warren, but 40 years this year. October of 1983 is when I started in ministry full time. But you know to your point, yes, there was an early season of just, you know, just this almost sense of being so on fire and so unrestrained, and so, you know, full throttle forward. And then, even after I had, you know, gotten into the place like seminary, and was trying to study, it got hard to keep going forward. You know, there were just times that just the responsibility of preparation, the challenge of seeking to live out my faith, you know, was hard and you know, one of the easiest places in the world to actually if you will call it backsliding is an old term for it you know is when you're in seminary and you get studying the Bible every day and all of it just kind of becomes normal to you and it can almost become something that you, you know, you kind of segment out in your life.
Speaker 4:This is that part of life and that's why I think sometimes you see catastrophic failures in ministry is that people actually end up sort of segmenting or proportioning their life and living it in various segments. But that's not what Christianity is at all Right. It's to be at the very core of your being, who you are, from the heart, and you know to our topic today, I think that's what gratitude is. It's living from the heart, not just living in circumstances, not just living in a context, not just living where gratitude is a slice of the pie that you serve yourself on Thanksgiving day, but it's actually something that becomes a real part of who you are, at the core of your character, and nurturing and developing a heart and a spirit of gratitude is vital.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we have several goals over the this podcast, but one of the things is to kind of hash out them as conceptions of gratitude, and I think that is one of them right there where a lot of people see gratitude as a temporal thing, that it's just a moment of time of I'm appreciative and then that's it, yeah, and then you'll wait a couple of years or a couple of months so the next time it happens. But I think it's it's definitely more towards your point and our goal and redefining gratitude is it's a, it's a choice and a lifestyle and a lens to live your life through, yeah, heart living, as, as you said well, and that's what I call it.
Speaker 4:I I ultimately say that gratitude is. It's several things. It's an attitude, it's a disposition and it's a perspective. That that's kind of what it is. It's the attitude that you bring to life. It's it's a disposition that you have to cultivate in life and then it's a perspective through which you see everything else in life.
Speaker 4:When you have an attitude of gratitude, it's how you approach your day, it's how you interact in your relationships and it's even how you address the problems and the adversities and the challenges that come in life. And you know there's a scripture in 1st Thessalonians, chapter five, verse 17, that simply says in everything, give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. And they're not a lot of verses that tell us this is the will of God. But there is no question about God's will related to our attitude that in everything we are to give thanks. And it's because that disposition, that perspective, that attitude changes everything about how you are able to grow when you go through hard times, how you are able to connect when you are with other people and, frankly, just how you see your life and see yourself.
Speaker 2:You know and that's probably the area that I could, if I could, chime in on that specific, I guess, topic has probably made the largest impact on my life personally. You know there's different things that I guess we all connect with that made such a big difference in our lives. But I can honestly remember that that the attitude of gratitude is what propelled me past some of the valleys that I would find myself in and never could seem to figure out a way out of the valleys. But you know, not only understanding that there's a way out of the valleys, but it was pretty interesting to me that those valleys got a lot more shallow. It was never quite as deep as they used to be. It helps you kind of put things in perspective and I think that when you finally, you know, because we're all human and we think that the issue that we're going through at the time we're going through it is the worst issue in the world that we're ever going to face and we're the only ones having to face it, and we've got nobody else you know.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of how we process things, I think, a lot of times as humans, or at least how I did until you finally figure out a way to have that positive attitude and you turn those things over to God, because I did search the Bible personally for the will of God. But I'm going to tell you it couldn't be any planer than 1st Thessalonians 517. But I'm going to tell you we can ignore that, yeah sure, and a lot of times it supports that narrative that we're trying to form in our own lives. If we're kind of in a I don't want to call it a pity party, because a lot of people literally do. You know they have some very serious issues, of course, and none of us would ever want to minimize that, but it definitely took care of a lot of the issues that.
Speaker 2:I had, and so I'm glad you brought that.
Speaker 4:I think so many of us do struggle with the battle between gratitude and entitlement, and it's the entitlement mentality which is, of course, so indulged in our society today. But you know, that idea that I'm entitled to more, that life isn't giving me what it should, that somebody has cheated me, that something is not right for me, and gratitude is what just changes the perspective in the midst of that. You know we live near the mountains here. We're not in the mountains, but we're not far from the mountains and I've, like many people here, love to go up and spend time there. I've had some lifelong friends who had a fantastic home kind of up on top of one of the mountains, and many times I've been able to go up and spend a day or two with them.
Speaker 4:And when we have, you know, one of the most beautiful things you see is watching a sunset from the top of a mountain. But one of the strangest things you see is how that at night, once it's dark, you can no longer really see the mountains. But what you can see are those little glimmers of light from all the other houses and places up on the mountains across from you. And so while on the one hand the background is a canopy of darkness. There are these little lights that come out and what we've got to learn to do in life is that life is going to have some real dark places, but we've got to be able to learn how to look at those lights and define gratitude and let gratitude be those little glimmers of light that speak to us in the night seasons, because the night seasons are hard and they're real and there are very deep ones, very dark ones like that.
Speaker 4:And, as you said, I mean you know the other side of that's maybe not things that are quite as serious, but we have a lot of people, if they're not having pity parties, they're at least having what I've called petty parties, and it's all about being petty about life and entitlement and those things. And we got to get rid of the pettiness of life and to really focus on the things that matter the most in life, and that's what gratitude helps you to do Just to kind of keep the big rocks, if you will, in place and not just, you know, worry about all the little pebbles here and there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I want to touch back on. I know we mentioned this quote in the last recording, but it's by Cicero. It says gratitude is not only the greatest of all virtues, but the parent of all others, and I'd love to get your two cents on that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Well, I think it comes down to the fact that gratitude becomes the lens or the filter by which you interpret life, and so it makes you a different kind of person, when that is the virtue of your life and which everything else is seen and done in your life, and I think it's a brilliant statement. I really do, I think. I think it's the essence of why gratitude matters Turning. I've mentioned my former pastor, adrian Rogers, who had a great message that he preached called turning Thanksgiving into thanks living, and you know, the way that you live out your life is by letting thanks become the heart of that in all that you do, and so I think this is quote speaks to that that everything else in life is affected by that, whether you look at it as attitude or perspective or lens or whatever it really is shaped by, it shapes the perspective on which you see life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, another one of our goals that I mentioned earlier is to leave people with something when they come out of this podcast and when times get tough. We've kind of talked about how you know you're going to go through these struggles. How do you remain grateful in those circumstances?
Speaker 4:Well, let's be, let's be honest, it's hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, when you're down, when life is hard, you're ready to just feel like you either want to throw in the towel, or you just want to go on a rampage, or you just want to, you know, curl up in a ball and pull up the covers and say that's it. You know, I'm done with life, and I think what we have to do is to really force ourselves into a posture, a position that we're willing to, to embrace gratitude. It's interesting that there are a hundred and sixty two verses in the Bible about giving thanks and thanksgiving. So that means it's a big deal in the Bible. I mean that's a lot of verses and a lot of. There's a lot of place where we see that there are a whole series of Psalms Psalm 113 through Psalm 118, that are all about giving thanks.
Speaker 4:Giving thanks because the thing that helps us to give thanks in the hard places is not the circumstance of life, it's the confidence that we have in who God is and his character, and so God is good if life is not good, and a lot of people live their life based on circumstances. That's why the Bible says they're in first Thessalonians in everything give thanks. It didn't say for everything give thanks. There are a lot of things I can't be thankful for, but I can learn how to, in everything, give thanks and not live just according to what I would call the happenstances of life. Happiness is based on happenstances. Whatever happens to you happens to make you happy, you're happy. But Thanksgiving, and ultimately beyond that joy, is something that comes not from circumstance but through confidence in who God is and his work and his character, and I trust him, even when I am tried to the nth degree in life, because I've learned that God is always good in what he does.
Speaker 4:I don't always see that at the moment. I struggle with that many times, trying to understand it, trying to wrestle with my own issues. But there's a statement that says gratitude keeps us from worrying about what we don't have and wasting what God has given us, and we have to learn how to not waste what God has given us. And he's given us his word, he's given us his promises, he's given us experiences in life, he's given us friends, he's given us many of us a church family that can be with us and though we go through things that are just gut wrenching and we weep and we struggle, but in that we've got this surrounding of the things that God has given us and we realize that the worry that would so easily dominate our lives, the anxiety that will so just suck every good thing in life out of you, can be put away when we begin to realize that we can trust the Lord and we can give thanks by faith. And faith is just speaking outwardly and believing inwardly what God has said in his word.
Speaker 2:I love that. Yeah, I think it's strong and that's probably one of the things that to me, you know, I've Obviously I've been around pastor for a long time now and and grateful for that. Unfortunately, a lot of the times that we get to see each other and get when we're all together as a group is Deering that, that downtime for somebody else. You know, and it is, it is just something that's gonna happen and I feel like if we can do a better job of not alienating people and and spending time with people that as they're in the valley and when you help them and you try to get them to that next, just that next day. You know we talk a lot about how you know it's day by day, by day and and, but you know, for a lot of people it's minute by minute. Yeah, they have any. They would love to get to the point to where they can go day by day.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's something that I just want to be very, you know, I want to be very observant of, I want I want to be respectful of people and and to notice that. But you know, I can tend to be a little cynical. I mean, I've realized that it's it's kind of like, the more you put yourself out there and the more you you see some true Trauma and some true, you know, hurt in people. It is so hard to not be cynical about people that, whether it's entitlement or whether it's a petty party Like you were referring to, and that's that's where I've got to have a check up for myself. I've got to say what are you doing, you know, and that's that. That cynical portion is something that I really have to Try to keep in check.
Speaker 4:Well, and I think that the ultimate enemy to gratitude is pride. You know pride about who I am, what I have, what I do, you know, and, and, and really that is the thing that deflates gratitude more than anything else. Grateful people are humble people. They, they know what their need is, they realize that they're dependent, they realize their weakness and they realize that even though they've been through hard things that maybe is even have even broken them that those things become points where God's grace in their lives become a place where they can extend that grace to others. And so pride is the thing that destroys gratitude in our lives. It's what makes us feel we're entitled, as I said, it's what makes us feel like we're above. And it's humility that changes everything and gives us the ability to be grateful.
Speaker 4:And, frankly, what is the greatest quality in human relationship? It's humility. You know, in in the book of Philippians, chapter 2, it it challenges us to let the attitude of Christ be our attitude, and that that passage of scripture says do not look out for your own self, but look out for the, the needs, the well-being of others. Don't think more highly of yourself than you ought to think, but to think in a lowly fashion. Because what really makes us connectors with other people is when it's not all about us, but when we can transfer our attention, our care, our affection and concern to them, and when humility is present. It's great. You can grow, you can connect, you can, you can support. But when that's lacking, then Pride's what destroys everything. Right, effective Proverbs says only by pride comes contention. You want to know where all conflict come. Only by pride comes contention.
Speaker 2:It's a good word.
Speaker 3:It reminds me of the verse. This makes me sound like I don't know all the verses which you might be able to fill me in here, but no greater love.
Speaker 4:Has any man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Right, and that was. Those were the words of Jesus spoken in the Gospel of John, just about Himself and and about what he had come to do to lay down his life for others.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I would say that's Almost humility. I mean, it's not like there's no self, but it's but it's putting others before yourself, yeah.
Speaker 4:Right, well, and it. That's what humility is. It's just, you know. Somebody said that you know. A lot of most people today think that humility is some form of you know, self-deflation or are putting yourself down. That's not what humility is. Humility is just not putting yourself up or thinking of yourself, it's thinking of others, and it's it's a different mindset, but I'm convinced. All these things, back to the Cicero quote. Read it to us one more time. What was it that Cicero said?
Speaker 3:Gratitude is not only the greatest of all virtues, but the parent of all others. So there you go.
Speaker 4:When you have humility, gratitude, generosity, you know a lack of a greater sense of peace and well-being. All those things come together Around gratitude when it's present in your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, do you think that generosity is gratitude enacted? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4:I have found that every generous person I've ever known is truly a grateful person. So the attitude of gratitude promotes the activity of generosity in the lives of people. I mean and back to what I was just saying it's it's proud people who don't feel that they should give or do anything, but but, to the contrary, when you're humble then you're like boy, I need to share what I have. I. I wrote a book a few years ago on the subject of of kind of Life, sacrifice, gratitude, service. I titled the book the life you were born to give, and the first sentence of that book just opens with these words everything I have, I have been given, everything I have I've been given. And until we really come to terms with that and and Recognizing that, so that we are grateful for what we have, whatever it is, it may not be all we want or Whatever, but as long as I have what I need every day and I don't let my desires become all about what I don't have, then I can live with a sense of gratitude and without a doubt.
Speaker 4:When people are grateful, it's amazing. They're generous, some of the most generous people I've ever known. We're not the richest people I've ever known and I've been around a lot of different kinds of people. My first ministry Was in South Florida. I lived in West Palm Beach. I was right across the ocean from Fantasy Island, where you know Millions and millions of dollars worth of homes and you know prosperity was there. But you know, I found that I knew a lot of people who had little but were grateful and generous, and I met many people who had much and they were neither grateful and Oftentimes they were so worried about losing what they had. They weren't generous to anyone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's amazing to see. I mean, I've seen it online countless times but people will Like they'll give a dollar, but to that person that dollar means so much more than the next person who said no, right, right, which is. It's an incredible thing to see. Again, I think that that comes back to gratitude. This morning, when I was driving to work, a song came on, perfectly and correctly called gratitude, by Brandon Lake.
Speaker 4:Are you familiar with the song?
Speaker 3:some, yeah, but it it struck me that gratitude is. I think I can liken it to praise and worship. Where praise and worship is, it's from the heart, but it's also an act. And I think the gratitude is the same thing where it's it comes from the heart, but it's also enacted through generosity and humility and so many other things. And that's where I think our definition or Effort to redefine gratitude as a verb, I think that's where it's it's demonstrated.
Speaker 4:I was afraid you were gonna ask me Some of the lyrics of the song, but can you, is there was? Was there a part of it that you felt? Yeah?
Speaker 3:So he says so I throw out my hands, praise you again and again, because that's all that I have is a hallelujah. And he says I have nothing else fit for a king, and it's basically to me that means like I Don't have anything to give but my life and my, my word, and so I think that's but I'm available Right give what I have.
Speaker 4:And I have an attitude that says I'm not gonna fail to give Gratitude, because that's what I do have to give. And when gratitude dominates, whether it's in praise and worship or whether it's just in life, gratitude changes the way we respond.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know, it's interesting to me that in today's climate, you know, a lot of people might struggle with this. From that, obviously, we know it goes back to pride, but we have so Demasculinized men to where it to be a humble, grateful man is just not defined the way it was years ago and you're not looked at Like I can look at that night. It is the most powerful, it's the most powerful attitude to have, but it doesn't seem popular, you know, and so we're in that I guess, age now to where we have to create something and make it popular Before we can get the ear of the people that are actually out there we're trying to reach. And so there's, you know, we're entitled, of course, we know that by nature, but I think even more so we are just. We just need to have everybody else on board with us before we can take that attitude of gratitude.
Speaker 2:It's like we need a support staff and it's so counterproductive when you think about it from the standpoint of. You know, I'm this macho guy. In order for me to do something, I'm gonna have to have this team of you know Giants with me, and we're talking about humility and gratitude, and so I'm gonna have to lower myself down to that level, and I think that's where a lot of the guys, at least that I speak to they just think it is such a sign of weakness and it's similar to when we define the term meek.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know difference in meek and strength and and powerful. You know to be described as a meek, humble man Is just something that the majority of our world right now, today, would just think would be just a curse.
Speaker 4:Yeah Well, meekness is strength under control. I mean, when you break a horse, you make the horse and the idea is not that it's, you know, and somehow powerless or loses its Ability. What it is is it's just brought under control, and that's really kind of what has to happen in our spirit. We have such a desire to be so self-absorbed, self-focused, self-indulgent that ultimately we make ourselves entitled. But when we bring that under control and we begin to cultivate that spirit of gratitude and humility in our lives, then that becomes one of the greatest strengths in life, because gratitude is an attractive quality in the lives of other people. We all love that. I mean, when you do even the smallest thing and somebody says thank you, you're like wow, that. That that feels awesome, that somebody thought I thought something good or I did something good and you know, and so when that's present and when humility can be there, it really in makes us more engaging and less isolating and insulting to other people around us.
Speaker 3:When you were describing me this. Do you know who Jordan Peterson is? By chance. I'm not sure he's kind of like a pop culture Figure. Now he's a professor out of Toronto, but okay, he has a quote. What's that?
Speaker 4:I don't think I do.
Speaker 3:Okay, he has a quote that says you should be a monster, an absolute monster, but then you should learn how to control it. It's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war, and I think that speaks to it. The strength under control, that's good. It's better to have the skill or have the the ability to do something, but then harness it and use it for good sure.
Speaker 4:Well, gratitude, humility, these are not weaknesses, these are the greatest strengths in life, and they they make us people that are not only tolerable, but they make us people that are enjoyable.
Speaker 3:I think that's, that's the crux of it, right there, enjoying other people, I think it's. I mean, our society is so me driven right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think part of it is because because everybody is me driven that nobody feels like they enjoy to be around other people, because it's always like what can I get out of this encounter or what is this person trying to get out of this encounter? It's not just let's be present with each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, and that's to me probably the more you immerse yourself. We spoke a lot about service and the importance of serving others, and I think that that is cultivated more depth, I guess, to the gratitude in my life is when I give up the comforts of whatever level that might be, just to serve others. And serving others definitely does not mean that I'm out there cutting people's grass every day yeah, Although I would love to do that. If you know me, you know how much I love getting out there in the yard and I I just enjoy it. So it doesn't have to be something that's just physical, but trying to get to the situation where we can serve the person in front of us and there's no chance encounters, we know that. And so how am I serving and how am I going to leave this person better than when he and I spoke is if you can somehow put that in front of you and challenge yourself, maybe to ask one or two more questions to show that you're really interested in that person and to see how far that conversation goes. And I get chastised a lot about conversations that I have, you know, and continuing conversations with people, but I literally if people knew how I am hanging on every word because I don't want to miss anything and I feel like so many times we rushed through things getting to know somebody or you know, I could have left mics, and this is not a pat on my back, I'm just bringing this up as an example that he said earlier.
Speaker 2:When we started about, when I invited him to come to Warren Um, but you see, a young family man, relatively new to the area, and I know the importance of plugging him in with like-minded people, yeah, and he's got a sweet fan. Well, at the time we didn't even have a sweet family. We were in close to uh, characters before the horse, as you say. Yeah, and then I can remember challenging him and it, and I told Melissa, my wife, when I got home that day. I said you know I'm, this guy is such a special guy. I see something in him, he's such a special guy and I really connected with him and we're totally opposite. You'd never put us together in any other circumstance you wouldn't think, um, but just a simple, open conversation. I said but you know I left it, probably not as good as I should have.
Speaker 2:And she said well, what are you talking about? And I said, well, I think that, um, his fiance is living with him and instead of me just moving on, I took the time to say, well, it looks like you might have put the cart before the horse If you want to start, you know doing things the right way and you want to have this attitude. And I said and I was challenging him in a joking way, um, but I hope he knew, and I think that I had earned already at that point, um, his trust because we had, we had been pretty open with each other and it's not like I have just left him since then. That was, I don't know, two years ago, yeah, well, something like that, and you know. But I hung on every word because I'm just very interested in the next generation. You know, and I think we've got such a challenge and we should be challenged as men.
Speaker 2:If you want to show great strength and power, why don't you start listing out a way that that you're investing in that next generation? And what are we doing to try to make sure that that we're not just throwing away some of the knowledge that we've gotten into? You brought this up last time about Zig Ziggler. You know, I think it's great, you know, if you want to get you know in order to get what you want out of life, just helping up other people get what they want out of life, and to me it is. It is so true when you stop for a minute and you try to think okay, when I left Mike's house, my mission was to figure out everybody I could get to see him on his podcast, how I could get him plugged into the church that I was, that I'm a member of, how I can get him married. That might have been the first thing.
Speaker 3:And how was I?
Speaker 2:it was a few short months. It was very short and it was a temporal thing. I say it worse than what it was. It was just a temporary thing, just logistics, but it I did take that advantage to. For him to open the door, though, and and really I'm truly invested in him and his family and his child, as sweet as they come, and nothing brings more satisfaction than that, but you just got to ask that. That first question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I talk about gratitude. I'm so grateful that he did. You know, I mean, had I not, had you not challenged me, I probably wouldn't be at war. And then my wife and I being the mindset we're at and you know reignited our faith. Jenna was baptized last year, I mean towards the end of last year, and that was it was. So I'm not, I guess I am kind of an emotional guy, but to see that happen and to see the change in her, it was it brought tears to my eyes.
Speaker 4:I had the privilege in the last week to get to know your wife, who is a very wonderful and very warm and engaging person, and just knowing that God has worked in your life has given me tremendous gratitude to know that one.
Speaker 4:You had a friend like Jesse who wanted to move beyond just the pleasantries and to talk to you about your life personally and about things that would matter.
Speaker 4:And I mean, here we sit today in a room where maybe most people wouldn't put the two of you together, but you look like you kind of both fit on each side of this table right now.
Speaker 4:And and in the middle of the table is not just the technology that allows you to do a podcast in the middle of the table is a partnership, a faith and hope and love together that you guys have built because you've had interaction and influence in one another's lives, and I'm so thankful for that influence positively in your life, challenging commitment in your life to your home, your family, your future, encouraging a spirit of of collective partnership, working together to do some good things and to help you with this podcast to become something that's a platform for good work and good will in the lives of other people. And all of that has come out of an effort to focus on serving one another and and and helping each other to be better servants to the Lord and to the responsibilities of your life. So I'm grateful for those things and I'm glad I get sharing that today.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I guess I mean this is kind of gratitude. I mean we have been talking about it. Gratitude is this, is we wanted to start this podcast off about gratitude, because it's kind of been the cornerstone of not only our relationships but it's become our life at at in this point. And yeah, so we on the short list of people we couldn't couldn't look past you.
Speaker 4:Thank you. Thank you for giving me the privilege to come in and share the mic and to be a part of getting to do this, and I really am thankful that that I have a perspective, I think, on this, having walked through so many things with so many people that have been hard things. But in the midst of that I've watched how the grace of God and the people of God and the word of God brings a sense of confidence and grace and gratitude together that Really enriches life. It's kind of some of the gratitude is kind of the secret sauce of a good life, right?
Speaker 3:It really is. Yeah, I think you're a great testament to that. I was just thinking now that a lot of people describe gratitude as a muscle that you have to continuously work out to grow and, as you've been generous or generous, as you've been grateful Generous also throughout your life, it becomes sweeter as you get older too. Yeah, like you, you learn to appreciate way more, but it feels different. It feels a lot more sweeter too, as, as you, I think it increases the capacity of your life.
Speaker 4:I really do. It changes the whole trajectory of you know what can be a tight-fisted, small-minded, petty life, or a life that is wide and open and broad and full, and you know that's that changes everything. It really does.
Speaker 2:I love it. You know I was thinking earlier too that you know the highest of highs outside of the, the attitude of gratefulness. Just don't they pale in comparison to an average grateful day. A grateful day to me Far exceeds what I used to redeem is just the best of days, because it just does not qualify to me anymore as that good of a day if there's not some focused, intentional time taken to just reflect and just be grateful for what, what, all we've been through and the consequences. And you know it's not. I'm not always necessarily just grateful for everything that's positive. I mean that there that's negative. Rather, I can be very grateful for, for some of the things that are tough in life and and it helps me appreciate it's just the gasoline that I need to keep me going for when things do get tough for me, I just want to be able to draw back on something that I know is has really put me in a good spot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, pastor, I remember from our last conversation you had five different, I Guess recommendations for us. Do you have that list?
Speaker 2:by.
Speaker 4:When we've kind of touched on some of them, but.
Speaker 4:I talked about how to cultivate a life of contentment, because that's the outcome of gratitude when you're grateful, you're actually able to cultivate contentment. And the greatest thing that we all struggle with is discontentment. You know we just feeling irritated, agitated, always have an itch that can't quite do it, and you know it's all that wind then thinking when I, you know, when I get this, then I'm gonna be happy and and that kind of a mindset just keeps us disrupted and just and distracted all the time. But there are some ways to try to cultivate contentment. Paul in the book of Philippians, chapter 4, talked about I have learned to be content, and that contentment comes in several ways.
Speaker 4:I think my list I gave you last time was this you know, first and foremost, I think we have to pause and confess in gratitude. We need to confess to God and, frankly, sometimes we need to confess to people. You know I haven't expressed the gratitude that I need to. I think you just got to make a course correction, you know, and do that. And then I said you've got to concentrate on what really matters. Concentrate on the things that really matter in life.
Speaker 4:You know, did I sleep in a warm bed? Did I have a hot meal? Do I have clothes? Do I have the ability To do some things in life? I mean, perspective is all of that. I think I gave you some examples that I was recently speaking on on a subject and Talking about money and, as a pastor, whenever you talk about money or giving people Automatically put up a wall because they're thinking he's trying to get in my pocket. But you know, the Bible says, let those who are rich in this present world it talks about riches and you know, we always well, I'm not rich, I'm not rich. And so the question is compared to who and compared to what?
Speaker 4:you know, no, we're not rich compared to the billionaires that we see profiled on social media, but the reality is is that less than 18% of the people in the world have an automobile. If you own an automobile or have access to a car, that puts you, you know, in the top 18% of people in the whole world. You know only a fraction of people in the world have Climate-controlled conditions to live in, air conditioning in particular, and I don't know about you, but my wife and I agree we think there ought to be a national holiday for the guy that invented air conditioning, because there's nothing better Than cool air on a hot day. And yet, you know, really it's amazing how many people do not have Air. And so there, there, those are little things, those kind of things we take for granted. But we shouldn't take those for granted. We need to. We need to stop and think about the fact that that the things that matter in life our health, our relationships, the opportunities that have been given to us those are things that we need to focus on, and to do that, and all you have To do is know somebody or walk through something with someone who loses Someone they love, or lose their health or are battling with illness and you stop and really get a perspective on what really matters in your life. One of the best things, as a pastor, about visiting hospitals through the years is that if I can walk in and out the door and I go visit someone, I need to be able to see that I have something that matters. You know, yes, my faith that I share with them, but also the the strength and well-being. I know I'm a pastor. I'm Digging down on the points. I shouldn't do that. All right, I'm out of, out of circumstantial happiness.
Speaker 4:We we talked about that the happenstance mindset navigate toward Gratitude in your life. Navigation is something you do, you move towards something. That's what navigation is, and we need to navigate our lives toward gratitude in what we do and then Teach, teach yourself to see and to identify the best in life. You know, just Think about the right things, the good things. That same passage that talks about being content says whatever things are true and honorable and just. You know, think on these things and so learning how to think the right way.
Speaker 4:Then I think I said enjoy the little things in life and you were just touching on that, jesse the wonderful Blessings of just ordinary days and small things a hot cup of coffee, a good conversation. You know the bright sunshine that comes out. And then the last thing is trust God's perfect provision for you. You know, if all you do is live your life comparing yourself to others, you are going to be a miserable person. But if you learn to trust God and his perfect provision for you, you will find that you will thank God for what you have and you will be thankful to him for what you have in a way in which it Changes your life, so that I think that was the list we had last time that little different, little different path of the conversation Getting there.
Speaker 4:But yeah, that's what we talked about last time sounds familiar and it reminds me of the.
Speaker 3:I think I use this quote last time that comparison is the thief of joy. Yes, it is, and Just it is easy how you're talking about discontentment and how gratitude ultimately leads to contentment. It could, like plague you. Discontentment can, it could plague you. I remember, not too long ago, just being so caught up and dissatisfied with my professional life that it started to affect everything else and it took a kind of a swift kick in the butt to say hey yeah like look at where you're at though. You know, yeah, let's.
Speaker 3:Let's take time to pay gratitude and thank God for where you're at.
Speaker 4:We waste a lot of energy, resource, mental capacity just Allowing ourselves to just stew in negative Disruption, dissatisfaction of thought, and when you can change that to gratitude and when you can get some new perspective, it really will become a new empowerment in your life to go forward and to to make some strides and begin to grow and Begin to, you know, take on some new things, and it's great to see how that changes your life.
Speaker 3:Beautiful, all right. Well, I want to be a good steward every time I know beforehand. You said you have something coming up after this. Jesse, do you have any parting questions?
Speaker 2:No, I just again.
Speaker 2:I just want to thank you for kind of helping us get this thing going and, obviously, spending this time with us, because it's I've I jot down as many notes as if I'm in a sermon right now and and it's just you hope to get one little piece out of this and you find yourself immersed with so many things that you can use, that are so applicable, and I just want to make sure that if there's anybody out there that you know, they've got the opportunities now to to put some things into action, and that's probably the the the most important message or, I guess, sense of direction that I would love to leave people with is if you've got the tools and you know the destination, you know sooner or later you're gonna have to just trust and get out there and do it.
Speaker 2:I mean, it boils down to just doing it, and you hate to dumb it down to that level, but I think if you just fail forward and if you just get out there and decide that you're gonna do it, then take that attitude, that nothing's gonna stop you and I think that you're gonna find it very, very grateful at the end. I think you'll be very grateful at the end that you started that journey.
Speaker 3:We do have a gift to oh yeah, let me do it, let me grab that grab that gift while he's doing that.
Speaker 2:We did have a pretty nice gift to help pastor with his with his alright, here we go, but let's see what we've got gonna be a shameless plug time, that it's the perfect oh my goodness, yeah, incredible, thank you, let me just exercise a little gratitude.
Speaker 4:Here I am holding and smelling a phenomenal bag of Creekside craft coffee that is a part of the Kings Creek inventory, I guess you could say of all the different things that you have, but I absolutely love this. I've had a cup in the past and it is fabulous. So this is a wonderful thing to get to, to take home and to share with my wife, connie, and for us to share life together. You know, one of the greatest things in my life is that we begin every day sharing two cups of coffee and just, you know, talking together and just kind of letting life meld together as we share coffee and conversation, and I am just incredibly grateful and blessed by by that that we get to share together.
Speaker 2:So and I was just making sure we got the the right sticker on this, because we are bringing that coffee again back out.
Speaker 2:We released it last year yeah as part of our little Christmas you know little odd oddities that we like to bring out at Christmas and you know we had the opportunity this is another great story that we were able to partner with a company from Savannah, midnight cold coffee company, and you know it's the collaboration days of being able to find that person that really loves to do the right thing, even when it doesn't make sense, and then find a way for us to come together and instead of me going out there trying to do all the legwork you know these are pros, they, yeah, they know what they're doing we just had the ability that we could customize and and and pick out the beans and all that kind of stuff, and I don't know how in the world.
Speaker 2:I think it was because you and I actually were coming off of a off of a trip to Maine, yeah, mission trip together, right when we, when this was birthed the first time, and so I was just on fire, I said I've got to figure this out, because I probably drank 75 cups of coffee in those three or four days, so I had a lot to compare it to, and I'm telling you it is.
Speaker 2:I'm so grateful for Miss Connie as well, so I wanted to get something that you guys could just.
Speaker 2:I know you like to sit on the porch and a cup of coffee and do just the simple things and and this was the absolute I actually had to contact him after I had to, you know, go back on my word and get back with you and redo this podcast. I said you got to bail me out of a hole. I said I know our shipments not due to be here yet, but I need at least one of our bags if you can somehow make that happen. And so he was able to get one bag. It's the very first, the only bag that we've got that he had sent to me so I could make sure that I got that to you. So I've got an exclusive here.
Speaker 4:That's fabulous for the next week or couple weeks, or yeah, well, I love the fact that I'm gonna get to you know, get out there ahead of everybody and enjoy the Creekside coffee, so that's gonna be something great to do.
Speaker 4:But thank you for that and thank you for always being so generous, jesse. You support so many things that we do through our church and ministry through just using your professional life to be able to be a way to help us to make, you know marker moments and I think about that mission trip to Maine and us going up and getting with a couple of hundred men that you helped us to put t-shirts on and to you know, kind of bring this identity together and it what a what a blessing that was to share and the gratitude that I have continued to receive from pastors and churches up in areas where you know the kind of resources that we've often had around, kind of the the area where I've been in ministry where we were kind of hearing the buckle of the Bible belt though it's not, it's pretty unbuckled these days, but you know it, it is what it is, so I'm thankful for that.
Speaker 2:Yes, there was a bet. I will never look at that. That northeast part of this country, the same yeah you know, and it's. We've got a heart for the, the people of Maine in that area.
Speaker 4:We've built some incredible friendships and partnerships there and we're working with a place where you know less than 3%, I think, of the area as evangelical believers. But, boy, we are helping to plant churches and helping to fire up men to go and walk with God and follow Christ, and I couldn't be more excited about what's happening there right now right, it'll charge you up.
Speaker 2:And I was fortunate enough to where I just got back a couple weeks ago from our second trip to Maine and to have heard an idea about a church plant a year prior to that, and then end our trip on a Sunday at that particular church after his come to fruition worship, worshiping with those people, seeing all those faces, man, what a, what an amazing thing it's crazy it was.
Speaker 2:You talking about an emotional babbling mess, you know. You're trying to sit there and hold it together, all the while thinking I don't see how this even happened, because we have been so spoiled in this area that we're in and to see the adversity and everything that they've overcome. And it started with just a couple guys. Yeah, you know, and and the passion, and I'm telling you that place is full and they're jamming and Maine's gonna be a lot better place because of it. Yeah, I think so that's great hey man, all right.
Speaker 4:Well, pastor McKinley oh sorry, no, no, just one parting thing, if I can please, I don't know where you're going. I need to let you finish what you were gonna say no, no, please.
Speaker 4:I was gonna close it up so, okay, good, well, just if I can have one closing word. You know, last time we were here, one thing you asked me that I think is my parting word to you guys today is that you asked me if I had a bucket list and you were kind of talking about how people live, you know, trying to fill the bucket and the bucket list. And I said at that time and I really come back to this again because I think it spoke to my own heart so many people live their lives hoping, waiting, wanting a moment to get to do something. And I said that you know, the problem with a bucket list is that your bucket can still come up empty, but there is a list you can have and it's a blessing list. And if you create a blessing list and you begin to look at your life in light of where you have been, what you have done, what you have been given, the blessing list changes everything so that, even if the bucket list doesn't come to fruition, you've got a blessing list for which you can pause and say I've had a rich and a rewarding life.
Speaker 4:And you know that's the bad thing about the bucket list. I mean, we all get the idea. Other things we want to do, we'd love to aspire to, have experiences, opportunities, but a lot of people you know suddenly find life takes a turn and the bucket list is no more, because there's there's no longer the health or the wealth or the opportunity or whatever it may be. Life can change in a moment and that can leave you with a sense of emptiness. But I promise you the blessing list will never do that.
Speaker 4:And and the blessing list is based on knowing who the blesser is, and Paul said at the end of 2nd Corinthians, chapter 9 he said thanks be to God for his indescribable gift, and that gift is the gift of knowing him through his son, jesus Christ, who came and became one of us, that through his perfect life, his sinless death, his powerful resurrection, brings reconciliation with God. And that gift, above all other gifts, changes everything. And when you experience that gift, truly experience it, whether as a 16 or 17 year old or whatever age or stage of life it may be, that gift changes everything because you begin to see life in light of the goodness and the grace of God amen, I can't say it any better.
Speaker 2:So awesome we do have. We're not gonna announce it, but pastor actually does know our second guest on the show and so we're gonna ask him to keep that quiet, but I think he can attest that.
Speaker 4:Let me just say I don't know who's gonna listen to this and you know what points. You hear it, but don't miss the next podcast. That's all I can say. One of my dearest friends, one of the gifts of God in my life, someone who I just think the world of, is going to be your guest and it will be a gift to everyone who gets to hear yeah, I can't wait.
Speaker 3:It's gonna be an incredible hour for sure. Pastor McKinley, thank you so much. You have a beautiful family, beautiful congregation. I would welcome anybody and challenge anybody to come to Warren.
Speaker 4:I echo that love to have you, anyone who's in the Central Savannah River area, the CSRA love to have you come and visit at one of our Warren campuses. We are in four locations now across the CSRA. We also have been incredibly blessed through these last few years to have the 11 am hour on WRDW channel 12, which is our CBS affiliate, all across this area, touching 19 counties, and so, even if you can't come visit our church campus, you can watch or you can go online and can stream us there, or even, of course, listen to a number of messages that are stored there as well. It's a way of life. It is a way of life.
Speaker 3:That's what it's all about yeah, all righty, well, I pass McKinley.
Speaker 4:Thank you so much for your time, thank you thank you guys for letting me come, and hey, I'm ready to go brew some coffee.
